HomeMy WebLinkAbout10/4/2019 - Work SessionMINUTES OF THE MEETING OF THE TOWN OF VINTON PLANNING
COMMISSION HELD ON FRIDAY, OCTOBER 4, 2019, AT 12 P.M., AT THE VINTON
MUNICIPAL BUILDING, 311 SOUTH POLLARD STREET.
MEMBERS PRESENT: Keith Liles, Chairman
Dave Jones, Vice Chairman
Bob Benninger
Bill Booth
MEMBERS ABSENT: Bob Patterson
STAFF PRESENT: Anita McMillan, Planning and Zoning Director
Nathan McClung, Principal Planner
Julie S. Tucei, Planning and Zoning Coordinator
Joey Hiner, Public Works Director
William “Bo” Herndon, Assistant Public Works Director
OTHERS PRESENT: Ray Varney, Virginia Department of Transportation (VDOT)
Brian Blevins, Virginia Department of Transportation (VDOT)
AGENDA
WORK SESSION
I. Call to Order—Roll Call
II. Introductions
III. Subdivision Ordinance Recommendations:
Presentation by Brian Blevins, P.E. (VDOT) and Ray Varney, P.E., LS (VDOT)
1. Topic #1: Turning radius definition and requirements
2. Topic #2: Block length size reductions
3. Topic #3: Mid-block crossing necessity
4. Topic #4: Sidewalk requirements
5. Topic #5: Street trees requirements
6. Topic #6: Width of right-of-way discussion
IV. Comments of Planning Commissioners and Planning Staff
V. Adjournment
The work session of the Planning Commission was called to order at 12:29 p.m. by Chairman Liles.
Roll was called, and all members were present, except Mr. Patterson. After roll call, introductions were
made around the room with each person present stating their name and title. Afterwards, Ms. McMillan
mentioned to those in attendance that Mr. Liles is also on Town Council and Mr. Benninger is also on
the Board of Zoning Appeals.
Ms. McMillan gave everyone a brief summary of the zoning ordinance revision process to date. Mr.
McClung briefly went over what would be discussed at today’s meeting. He mentioned that he will be
showing a PowerPoint presentation during the meeting containing all of the information, a copy of
which will be made a part of the permanent record for this meeting. Mr. McClung stated that the
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OCTOBER 4, 2019
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PowerPoint is just a guide for the meeting, and attendees should feel free to comment at any time during
the presentation.
The first topic for discussion is the turning radius definition and requirements. Mr. Blevins from VDOT
stated that in their design, they are looking at moving traffic. He said; however, in a case like this, you
have to think about both people and vehicle movement. He mentioned that a larger turning radius is
worse for pedestrians due to speed that can be obtained by vehicles and also the length of crossing for
the pedestrian. He said that they should keep in mind the Town’s specific uses. If the use is mostly cars,
then a smaller turning radius is fine. Mr. Blevins stated that a smaller radius increases walkability for
pedestrians. Natural traffic calming methods such as tighter turning radii and street trees help to slow
traffic. Ms. McMillan mentioned that the Fire/EMS personnel are always stating that they do not like
the tighter radii with the large emergency vehicles. Ms. McMillan said movement of emergency
vehicles needs to be considered so they don’t have trouble navigating the streets during emergency calls.
Vice Chairman Jones also mentioned that the public works vehicles, such as refuse trucks, should also
be considered. Mr. Blevins said they will have to consider the “typeology” of the road. He mentioned
that a main street should be wider than a side street. Mr. McClung asked Mr. Hiner about how wide
Cleveland Avenue is when vehicles are parked on both sides. Mr. Hiner stated that he didn’t have exact
measurements on that street at the moment. He mentioned that Bowman Street is probably the tightest
street width in town. He mentioned that, when thinking about the revisions, they also need to also
consider the snow plows. Mr. Booth stated that Blair Street is also very tight. He mentioned that today,
when he was on Blair, a moving truck was having trouble getting through because it was so tight. Mr.
Hiner did say that those are considered residential streets, and the narrowness does help with some
traffic calming. Mr. Varney from VDOT asked Mr. Booth how fast the moving truck was going. Mr.
Booth said it was barely moving.
The next topic for discussion is about a size reduction in block lengths. Mr. McClung stated that the
proposal is to reduce the minimum block sizes from 300 feet to 150 feet and to reduce maximum from
1000 feet to 800 feet. Vice Chairman Jones asked if the Town was going to bust up existing blocks.
Mr. McClung stated that these new regulations would apply to future development in the Town.
Chairman Liles gave some examples in the downtown area, such as the Vinton Motors lot. Mr. Blevins
said VDOT does not have much guidance on this particular subject. He stated that this is more about
what the Town wants or needs. He did mention the Daleville Town Center as an example. He said that
is about the only development in the local area that would demonstrate this type of design. Mr. Blevins
said at the time it was built, it was called a neo-traditional development. He said the Daleville Town
Center is ahead of their time in this area. Mr. Hiner asked if this would be applied to specific areas, such
as Mixed Use District. Ms. McMillan said it will depend upon what the Council would like and also
where staff thinks the town will be 10 or more years down the road. She said it depends on how the
Town decides to balance it. Mr. Varney asked how this type of subdivision regulation will be applied in
the Town. He asked if it would it be an overlay district. Ms. McMillan said that is still to be determined
by looking at the different situations within the Town and whether it will make sense to require it on
certain properties. Mr. Booth asked if there are any annexation plans by the Town in the near future.
Ms. McMillan said she does not have the answer to that. Mr. Hiner stated that it is not outside of the
realm of possibility, but who knows when or if it will happen. Vice Chairman Jones mentioned the gain
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sharing agreement with the County, but Mr. Liles stated that it had recently expired. Ms. McMillan said
that instead of the gain sharing agreement, the Town now has a Memorandum of Understanding (MOU)
with the County. Some of the benefits and monetary proceeds that the gain sharing agreement had have
been cut out in the MOU.
Next, Mr. McClung skipped ahead to topic 4, Sidewalk requirements. He explained the proposed
requirements for sidewalks, which are shown in the PowerPoint. Mr. Blevins stated that VDOT
standards do not require street trees and buffer zones. He said VDOT doesn’t have enough people to
maintain the trees and grass. He said if the County were to require trees and buffer zones, VDOT would
require an agreement with the County for the maintenance. Mr. Varney mentioned that people who park
under the trees don’t want sap all over their cars, so if trees are going to be required, they need to be the
right trees. He also pointed out that what comes off trees may go in the stormdrain as well. He
reiterated that the right type of trees must be selected. He stated that there are a lot of things to consider
such as sap, or bird droppings, or that the roots could break up pavement. Mr. Hiner said the trees roots
could also affect the utilities, in addition to the pavement and sidewalk. He mentioned that the trees also
contribute to icier roads in the winter due to shading the pavement. Mr. McClung said the ordinance will
include regulations on what types of trees that can be used. Mr. Varney asked if alleys will be included
in these regulations. Ms. McMillan said the Town is already so fully developed, and there is not much
land area left for a town center that would have new alleys and such. She stated that the lack of vacant
land is the challenge. She said they do not want to adopt regulations when they will not make sense for
the Town. However, Ms. McMillan mentioned the possibility that the River Park Shopping Center
could become a town center in the future. Mr. McClung asked if VDOT requires sidewalks. Mr.
Blevins stated that it depends on volume and lot size and density. He mentioned that City of Roanoke
has complete street requirements that seem to work well for them. Mr. Blevins said VDOT’s sidewalk
requirements are in their regulations, and he will be glad to send Mr. McClung a copy via email after the
meeting. Ms. McMillan did mention that some of what the Town’s consultants recommended along
these lines do apply more to higher growth areas such as in Northern Virginia.
The third topic for discussion was the mid-block crossing necessity. Mr. McClung stated that this topic
is fairly self-explanatory. He said that an engineering study would determine the need for any midblock
crossings. Mr. Booth asked if homeowners’ associations (HOA) could cause conflicts on some of the
requirements. Mr. Varney stated that, if a fixture is to be located in the right-of-way, it is VDOTs
responsibility and they have the control over it. He said his main thought is always how VDOT will
maintain the fixtures once they are built. Mr. Blevins said the HOA requirements could be reviewed
during the subdivision reviews to make sure they are not going against the ordinance. Mr. McClung
mentioned that VDOT is moving away from midblock crossings. He said the private developers will
have to fund any engineering studies that may be needed. Vice Chairman Jones asked why VDOT
moved away from the midblock crossings. Mr. Blevins explained that it is generally expected that
pedestrians will cross at intersections, rather than in the middle of a block. VDOT moved away from
them due to the danger to pedestrians. Chairman Liles mentioned that the town plans to put a midblock
crossing on Hardy Road near Dillon Woods and the elementary school.
The fourth topic for discussion was on sidewalk requirements which was already discussed previously
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during the block length size reduction portion of the meeting.
The next topic for discussion was Street tree requirements. Mr. McClung showed some photos in the
PowerPoint presentation that depicted streets with street trees versus streets with no street trees.
The sixth and final topic for discussion was on the width of right-of-ways. Mr. McClung showed a
diagram of a typical urban street that was provided by VDOT. Mr. Blevins said they just need a
maintainable width along streets. He said something like 29 feet, face of curb to face of curb, is
adequate. However, if you add bike lanes, you would need about 8 more feet, not including buffer areas
with sidewalks and trees. With all that, it would bring the total width to about 66 feet. He also
mentioned that 3 feet must be provided behind the sidewalk to allow for maintenance. Mr. Hiner stated
said many localities are reducing the right-of-way width, but then adding public utility easements to
allow for the placement and maintenance of utilities. Mr. Booth asked about the mowing of the grass in
those areas. Mr. Hiner stated that Roanoke City has an ordinance to take care of that type of problem.
Mr. Hiner also mentioned that Mr. McClung is working with the Town Attorney to develop an
ordinance for the Town regarding the mowing of the right-of-ways. Mr. Varney pointed out that a road
with 29 feet total width that has parking on both sides of about 16 feet total leaves only about 13 feet for
traffic to pass between the parked cars. He cautioned the town to think about the road width carefully.
Mr. Blevins said that emergency responders are not usually in favor of the smaller width streets as
mentioned earlier in the meeting. However, he said that his neighborhood has very small streets and
people slow down more there. Mr. Varney also mentioned when people are parked there and open their
car doors to get out, it lessens the available width further. He said that Mr. Blevins made a good point,
though, that it does calm traffic. Mr. Hiner said parking could be restricted to one side of the street
especially in the downtown area, but not so much in residential areas. Ms. McMillan asked Mr. Hiner
about his recommendation on the utilities within subdivisions. Ms. McMillan said she realizes that they
may like to have a lot of the utility lines outside of the paved areas. Mr. Hiner mentioned that utilities
have certain requirements for placement, including things like manholes, etc. Mr. Hiner stated that
localities getting utilities out of the paved areas is a new trend. He pointed out that there would also be
sidewalks to consider in regards to utility placement. Mr. Hiner mentioned that sidewalks are not
always needed on both sides of the streets, though. He said it comes down to what you are looking for
as far as pavement width taking into consideration whether there will be on-street parking with car doors
opening. He said bicyclists also must be considered.
The last item on the agenda were the comments from Planning Commissioners and Planning Staff. Mr.
McClung mentioned bandit signs that have been showing up more and more in the Town right-of-ways.
He said that some localities have civil penalties for the people who put up bandit signs. He asked if
VDOT has regulations on the bandit signs. Mr. Varney said that, by code, signs in right-of-way are
illegal, but VDOT doesn’t necessarily go out and enforce it on a regular basis. He did mention that
church signs in the right-of-way are exempt from the regulations. Chairman Liles asked if the Town
would require a permit for real estate signs or political signs. Mr. McClung stated that the courts have
ruled that permits cannot be required for those types of signs on private property. He said that he has
been calling some of the numbers on some of the bandit signs to let the people who placed them there
know they are not allowed in the Town right-of-ways.
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Vice Chairman Jones said that he thought this has been a very interesting discussion.
Chairman Liles mentioned recent car break-ins in Vinton neighborhoods. He asked about how to get
new streetlights installed in the neighborhood areas. Mr. Hiner stated that Town has standards for the
installation of new streetlights, and all the requests go through the Town Clerk, Susan Johnson. Mr.
Hiner said he believes that 400 feet between each street light is a general standard. He said they also
like to have them installed at intersections. He asked Chairman Liles to refer citizens wanting to request
streetlights to Ms. Johnson.
Ms. McMillan asked the VDOT representatives, Mr. Blevins and Mr. Varney, about the e-scooters and if
VDOT regulates them on state roads. Mr. Varney said the DMV regulates the motorized scooters.
Chairman Liles said he did not think DMV would regulate these types of scooters, which can be rented
over the internet. Mr. Blevins said on a VDOT-owned road, the same laws would apply to e-scooters as
they do to bicyclists. He said he doesn’t think they will see many of the e-scooters on VDOT-
maintained streets.
Mr. Booth asked if there is any information on a Sheetz coming to Vinton. He said he has heard strong
rumors about one coming to the area. Chairman Liles said he has not heard anything about that.
With there being nothing further to discuss, Chairman Liles requested a motion to adjourn the meeting.
Vice Chairman Jones made a motion to adjourn the work session at 1:58 p.m., which was seconded by
Mr. Booth.
Respectfully Submitted,
Anita McMillan
Planning Commission Secretary